>> SO FOR THE PAST YEAR, ABOUT 230,000 PEOPLE WERE ARRESTED IN THE UNITED STATES BY I.C.E AND DEPORTED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

THAT'S MORE THAN THE TOTAL NUMBER OF DEPORTEES DURING PRESIDENT BIDEN'S ENTIRE FOUR-YEAR TERM.

NOW UNDER TRUMP'S IMMIGRATION CRACKDOWN, I.C.E.

AGENTS ARE PICKING PEOPLE OFF THE STREETS AND FROM THEIR HOMES AT A VERY HIGH RATE, BUT WHAT TOOLS ARE ENABLING THEM TO TARGET NEIGHBORHOODS?

JOSEPH COX IS THE FOUNDER OF 404 MEDIA AND HAS DONE EXTENSIVE REPORTING ON THE FEDERAL AGENCY AND ITS EXPANDING SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGIES.

HE SPEAKS TO HARI SREENIVASAN ABOUT THE ROLE OF PALANTIR AND FACILITATING ALL OF THIS.

>> THANK YOU.

JOSEPH COX, YOU AND YOUR TEAM AT 404 HAVE BEEN DOING A SERIES OF STORIES ABOUT HOW TECHNOLOGY IS BEING USED IN THE MASS DEPORTATIONS AND RAIDS WE'RE SEEING AROUND THE COUNTRY BY I. C. E. IN ONE OF YOUR MOST RECENT ARTICLES, IT WAS TITLED TITLED TITLED TITLED "ELITE: THE PALANTIR APP THAT I. C. E. USES TO RAID. "

YOU WRITE, PALANTIR IS WORKING ON A TOOL FOR IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT AND BRINGS UP A DOSSIER ON EACH PERSON AND PROVIDES A CONFIDENCE SCORE ON THE PERSON'S CURRENT ADDRESS.

NOW YOU'VE LEARNED THAT I. C. E. IS USING IT TO FIND LOCATIONS WHERE LOTS OF PEOPLE IT MIGHT DETAIN COULD BE BASED.

HOW DOES THIS WORK?

>> SO IT IS A MAP INTERFACE AND AN I. C. E. OFFICIAL WILL SIMPLY DRAW A CIRCLE OR A SQUARE ONTO THAT MAP, AND ALL OF THESE SMALL PINS WILL APPEAR.

THEY'LL THEN CLICK ONTO ONE OF THOSE PINS AND THAT WILL BE A SPECIFIC PERSON WHERE I. C. E. IS SORT OF VERNACULAR, A TARGET.

IT WILL BE THEIR DATE OF BIRTH, A PHOTO IF THEY HAVE IT, THEIR NAME, AND THE ADDRESS, THE ADDRESS CONFIDENCE SCORE.

ELSEWHERE IN THE USER GUIDE I OBTAINED EXPLAINING HOW THIS TOOL WORKS IT SAYS THESE ADDRESSES CAN COME FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES, U. S. CIS WHICH IS PART OF DHS, AND VARIOUS OTHER SOURCES AS WELL.

IT SEEMS TO BE A TOOL THAT BRINGS TOGETHER DATA FROM ALL OF THESE USUALLY SEPARATE PLACES AND SOURCES AND BRINGS IT INTO A SORT OF ALL IN ONE SINGLE TOOL THAT I. C. E. CAN USE TO FIND NEIGHBORHOODS TO RAID, MAYBE WRITE UP TARGET LISTS, AND EVENTUALLY SUPERVISORS TO APPROVE THOSE LISTS AND SEND PEOPLE OUT INTO THE FIELD.

>> SO HOW DID YOU CONFIRM THE CONNECTION BETWEEN I. C. E. AND THE COMPANY PALANTIR?

>> SO ELITE IS AN ACRONYM, AND THEN IN THE USER GUIDE, THE FULL TEXT OF THAT WAS SPELLED OUT.

I THEN --AS I USUALLY DO WHEN I GET LEAKED DOCUMENTS, YOU STARTED GOOGLING AROUND.

THE ONLY MENTION OF THAT SPELLED OUT ACRONYM ON THE ENTIRE WEB WAS INCLUDED IN A PALANTIR CONTRACT FOR $29.

9 MILLION.

SO ME, THAT MADE A VERY SOLID LINK BETWEEN THIS PARTICULAR TOOL AND PALANTIR AND OF COURSE, LAST YEAR WE ALREADY REPORTED THAT PALANTIR WAS WORKING ON IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT FOR THE SECOND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

THEY WERE DOING VARIOUS DATA ANALYTIC SERVICES AND PRODUCTS AND THAT SORT OF THING, BUT THIS WAS REALLY THE FIRST LINK THAT WE GOT BETWEEN, OH, THEY'RE MAKING THIS SPECIFIC TOOL AND I. C. E. IS USING IT.

IT WAS FINALLY BRIDGING THAT DIVIDE BETWEEN PALANTIR DOING SOME FRANKLY OBSCURE TECHNOLOGY WORK OVER HERE, AND WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING ON AMERICAN STREETS.

>> SO WHAT IS ELITE?

WHAT DOES THE ACRONYM STAND FOR?

>> IT STANDS FOR ENHANCED LEADS IDENTIFICATION AND TARGETING FOR ENFORCEMENT.

THAT WAS A VERY UNIQUE ACRONYM.

>> YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE'S A CONFIDENCE SCORE.

SO HOW'S THAT CALCULATED?

>> ACCORDING TO THE USER GUIDE, THERE ARE TWO MAIN METRICS THAT DICTATE OR INFLUENCE THAT CONFIDENCE SCORE.

THE FIRST IS THE SOURCE OF THAT DATA.

SO THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH OR WHEREVER IT MAY COME FROM, AND THE SECOND ONE IS THE RECENCY, AS WHEN IS THE LAST TIME THAT ADDRESS WAS UPDATED?

AND THAT'S ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT FOR I. C. E. BECAUSE WHEN IT'S TRYING TO FIND PEOPLE TO DETAIN AND DEPORT AND THOSE COULD BE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WITH NO CRIMINAL CONVICTION OR IT COULD BE WHAT THEY DESCRIBE AS, YOU KNOW, THE MOST WANTED OR THE WORST OF THE WORST OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE.

THE DHS -- IT MAY BE HOWEVER DHS IS DESCRIBING THAT.

THOSE ADDRESSES HAVE REALLY BEEN IMPORTANT FOR I. C. E. BECAUSE THEY CAN FINALLY TRY TO TRACK DOWN WHERE THAT SPECIFIC PERSON MAY BE, AND THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE A CONFIDENCE SCORE.

THEY WANT TO BE QUITE EFFICIENT IN WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

THEY DON'T WANT TO BE SENDING PERSONNEL AROUND RANDOMLY.

THEY DO WANT TO FIND A SPECIFIC LOCATION TO GO AND TARGET, AND THAT IS WHAT THIS TOOL AT LEAST HOPES TO DO.

>> DO YOU KNOW IF THIS TOOL HAS BEEN AND IS BEING USED IN THE RAIDS THAT WE'RE SEEING AROUND THE COUNTRY?

>> SO IN DECEMBER, I. C. E. OFFICIALS AND CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION OFFICIALS GAVE REALLY ILLUMINATING TESTIMONY IN THE CASE GOING ON THERE.

IT WAS DISCUSSING AN IMMIGRATION RAID THAT HAPPENED IN OCTOBER.

THEY TARGETED A WOMAN WHO HAS THE INITIALS JMA IN THE TRANSCRIPTS AND ABOUT 40 PEOPLE AS WELL, AND IN THAT TESTIMONY, AN I. C. E. OFFICIAL EXPLICITLY SAID THAT THEY USED SOMETHING CALLED ELITE, DESCRIBING HOW IT'S USED TO BUILD UP TARGET LISTS, DESCRIBING HOW THEY WENT TO NEIGHBORHOODS THAT THEY CALLED TARGET-RICH BECAUSE THERE WERE LOTS OF PEOPLE THEY COULD POTENTIALLY DETAIN, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE KEY PIECES THAT ALLOWED ME TO DO THIS INVESTIGATION BECAUSE THIS IS HEARING FROM I. C. E. OFFICIALS THEMSELVES ABOUT HOW THEY'RE USING THIS TOOL, WHAT THEY'RE USING IT FOR BECAUSE WHEN I APPROACHED DHS FOR COMMENT ON THIS, THEY WEREN'T GOING TO READILY CONFIRM THOSE DETAILS THEMSELVES.

THAT TESTIMONY HAS BEEN REALLY, REALLY ILLUMINATING NOT JUST FOR THIS STORY ABOUT PALANTIR, BUT VARIOUS OTHER ONES ABOUT SURVEILLANCE TECH THAT I. C. E. IS USING IN THE FIELD.

>> IS ANYTHING THAT PALANTIR IS DOING TODAY ILLEGAL?

>> AS FAR AS I KNOW, NOTHING THAT PALANTIR IS DOING IS ILLEGAL.

THIS DATA SHARING BETWEEN AGENCIES IS THE FRUIT OF AN EXECUTIVE ORDER FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP.

SO IT IS LEGALLY AUTHORIZED IN THAT SENSE.

IT'S CRUCIAL TO REMEMBER THAT PALANTIR DOESN'T GO OUT AND GATHER DATA.

THEY'RE NOT PERFORMING FACIAL RECOGNITION.

THEY'RE NOT TRACKING PHONES.

ALL PALANTIR DOES IS IT SEEMS QUITE WELL, BRING ALL OF THIS DATA TOGETHER SO THE CUSTOMER, IN THIS CASE I. C. E. , CAN UNDERSTAND IT.

>> JUST AS A NOTE, WE HAVE REACHED OUT TO BOTH I. C. E. THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY AND TO PALANTIR ABOUT YOUR REPORTING.

WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED ANY COMMENTS, AND YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR REPORTING THAT YOU'VE REACHED OUT MULTIPLE TIMES TO PALANTIR, TO I. C. E. , AND THEY HAVE NOT GOTTEN BACK TO YOU.

CORRECT?

>> YEAH.

I HAVE HEARD --I HAVE HEARD FROM THE COMPANY ONCE OR TWICE OVER MY SEVERAL MONTHS OF REPORTING, AND USUALLY THEY SAY, THEY REGRET THE LEAKS HAVE HAPPENED RATHER THAN COMMENTING ON THE SUBSTANCE OF THE LEAKS THEMSELVES.

I WOULD SAY IT'S MUCH MORE INTERESTING TO LOOK AT WHAT THEY SAY INTERNALLY, OF COURSE, AND PALANTIR JUSTIFIES ITS WORK WITH I. C. E. BY SAYING IT BELIEVES IT CAN MAKE I. C. E.

'S WORK MORE EFFICIENT, MORE TRANSPARENT, MORE ACCOUNTABLE.

ULTIMATELY, I. C. E. IS THE ONE DECIDING HOW TO USE THIS TECHNOLOGY IF THEY USE IT AT ALL.

I. C. E. IS THE ONE THAT DECIDES WE'RE GOING DETAIN THIS PERSON OR TRACK DOWN PEOPLE IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD.

>> "WIRED" RECENTLY HAD A REPORT ABOUT INTERNAL COMMUNICATIONS AT PALANTIR WHERE THERE WERE SEVERAL EMPLOYEES THAT WERE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT HOW THE COMPANY'S PRODUCTS ARE BEING USED IN I. C. E. ENFORCEMENT AND QUOTED FROM THE "WIRED" STORY NOW, THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT AN INTERNAL WIKI, A REFERENCE BASE INSIDE PALANTIR THAT EMPLOYEES ALL HAVE ACCESS TO IT SAYS --"THE WIKI ACKNOWLEDGES INCREASING REPORTING AROUND U. S. CITIZENS BEING SWEPT UP IN ENFORCEMENT AND HELD WITH RACIAL PROFILING ALLEGEDLY APPLIED AS PRETENSE FOR THE DETENTION OF SOME U. S. CITIZENS BUT ARGUES THAT PALANTIR'S CUSTOMERS AT I. C. E. REMAIN COMMITTED TO AVOIDING UNLAWFUL, UNNECESSARY TARGETING HOWEVER AND WHEREVER POSSIBLE. "

WE SHOULD ALSO NOTE THAT "WIRED" TRIED TO REACH OUT FOR COMMENT AND DID NOT RECEIVE ONE.

IT'S INTERESTING THAT THERE IS KIND OF THIS INTERNAL TENSION THAT WAS FELT FROM EMPLOYEES.

>> WE'VE SEEN THIS.

PALANTIR WAS DOING WORK WITH I. C. E. IT WAS SPECIFICALLY WORKING ON THE SYSTEM CALLED ICM FOR HOMELAND SECURITY INVESTIGATIONS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE PART OF I. C. E. WHICH FOCUSES ON CYBERCRIME OR CHILD ABUSE OR MONEY LAUNDERING, THAT SORT OF THING.

SOME EMPLOYEES HAD AN ISSUE THEN.

THIS TIME, THE OUTRAGE DOES SEEM TO BE MUCH MORE VISCERAL I WOULD SAY, INDICATING BY THE LEAKS I HAVE RECEIVED AND "WIRED" HAS RECEIVED AS WELL, BUT EMPLOYEES IN THAT COMPANY CAN'T NECESSARILY CHANGE THE POLICY DIRECTIVES OF PALANTIR AS A WHOLE, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE LEADERSHIP SUCH AS THE CEO SAYING THAT IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF TECH COMPANIES TO HELP DEFEND THE WEST, DEFEND DEMOCRACY.

NOW OF COURSE, MYSELF AND I THINK OTHER PEOPLE WHO LOOK INTO PALANTIR AS WELL, FIND THAT QUITE A STRANGE THING TO MARRY WITH THE IDEA THAT THEY SAY THEY'RE WISHING TO DEFEND AMERICAN WESTERN VALUES WHILE ALSO PROVIDING THE TECHNOLOGICAL INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THE AGENCY THAT NOW SAYS IT DOESN'T NEED A WARRANT TO ENTER INTO BUILDINGS.

I SINCERELY TRY TO SQUARE THAT CIRCLE AND I WOULD LOVE IF PALANTIR RESPONDED TO MY REQUEST FOR COMMENTS, TO ELABORATE ON THAT AS WELL.

>> YOU'VE ALSO REPORTED ABOUT FACIAL RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY AND SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE SEEN THESE VIRAL VIDEOS WHERE THE I. C. E. AGENT REALLY JUST STICKS HIS OR HER PHONE UP DIRECTLY TO THE PERSON AND KIND OF TAKES A SNAPSHOT, AND THAT PHONE THAT THEY HAVE IN THEIR HAND IS COMPARING THE IMAGE TO SOME MUCH, MUCH LARGER DATABASE.

IS THAT EFFECTIVE?

WHERE DID ALL THOSE PICTURES COME FROM?

>> SO WE FIRST REVEALED THE EXISTENCE OF THIS APP CALLED "MOBILE FORTIFY" LAST JUNE THANKS TO LEAKED EMAILS FROM INSIDE I. C. E. I THEN STEADILY GOT MORE INFORMATION OVER THE COMING MONTHS, AND ESSENTIALLY IT USES THE SYSTEM -- THE CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION HAS IT AT THE BORDER TO VERIFY WHO IS ENTERING THE COUNTRY.

IT HAS TURNED THAT INWARDS ONTO AMERICAN STREETS WHERE AS YOU SAY, AN I. C. E. OFFICIAL OR ANOTHER DHS OFFICIAL CAN USE THEIR PHONE, POINT IT AT SOMEONE'S FACE, AND INSTANTLY QUERY A DATABASE OF SOMETHING LIKE 200 MILLION IMAGES THAT DHS HAS.

COMPARES IT TO THOSE, AND BRINGS UP A FACE IDENTIFYING THE PERSON, THEIR NAME, DATE OF BIRTH, WHETHER THEY'VE BEEN GIVEN THE FINAL ORDER OF DEPORTATION.

AND I. C. E. OFFICIALS ARE USING THIS TOOL IN ATTEMPTS TO VERIFY PEOPLE'S CITIZENSHIP.

THAT SAID, RECENTLY WE'VE REPORTED THAT THE APP MAY NOT ALWAYS BE ACCURATE.

IN THAT EARLIER CASE I MENTIONED OF MJMA, THE WOMAN IN OREGON AND WHO OFFICIALS TESTIFIED ABOUT, WHEN A CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION OFFICIAL SCANNED HER FACE, IT RETURNED TWO DIFFERENT NAMES.

WHEN YOU FIRST LEARN ABOUT FACIAL RECOGNITION, AS A RESEARCHER OR A JOURNALIST, YOU LEARN IT CAN BE VERY INACCURATE, ESPECIALLY AGAINST PEOPLE OF COLOR.

WE'VE SEEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN, BLACK PEOPLE ESPECIALLY HAVE BEEN MISIDENTIFIED BY FACIAL RECOGNITION AND THEN THEY FACE CHARGES OR THEY HAVE BEEN DETAINED.

THEY HAVE BEEN ARRESTED.

THEY HAVE BEEN PUT IN JAIL FOR SOME TIME.

THAT TECHNOLOGY IS NOW BEING USED TO DETERMINE WHETHER SOMEBODY SHOULD BE DEPORTED OR NOT, AND I. C. E. BELIEVES THAT A RESULT FROM THAT APP IS DEFINITIVE PROOF OF SOMEONE'S STATUS AND IT OVERRIDES A BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

>> NOW THERE'S A GROUP OF DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS THAT ARE TRYING TO REIN IN THE USE OF MOBILE FORTIFY.

REPRESENTATIVE BENNIE THOMPSON WHO AUTHORED THIS LEGISLATION, HE'S THE HOMELAND SECURITY RANKING MEMBER.

HE SAID, "I. C. E.

'S USE OF MOBILE FORTIFY TO DETERMINE A PERSON'S LEGAL STATUS IS AN OUTRAGEOUS AFFRONT TO THE CIVIL RIGHTS AND CIVIL LIBERTIES OF U. S. CITIZENS AND IMMIGRANTS ALUKE.

DHS SHOULD NOT BE CONDUCTING SURVEILLANCE BY EXPERIMENTING WITH AMERICANS' FACES AND FINGERPRINTS IN THE FIELD, ESPECIALLY WITH UNPROVEN AND BIASED TECHNOLOGY. "

WHAT'S THEIR LEGISLATION PROPOSING?

>> SO THE AIM OF THE LEGISLATION IS NOT TO ELIMINATE THIS APP.

IT'S MORE TO REIN IT IN, AND IT PLANS TO DO THAT IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT WAYS.

THE FIRST ONE WOULD BE THAT DHS CANNOT USE THIS OUT ON AMERICAN STREETS.

IT WOULD BE RESTRICTED TO PORTS OF ENTRY INTO THE COUNTRY.

ANOTHER IS THAT DHS WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO ROLL OUT A VERSION OF THE APP TO LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT WHICH IS WHAT WE'VE REPORTED THEY WERE PLANNING TO DO, WHICH WOULD HAVE MEANT THAT ORGANIZATIONS WHO ARE PART OF THE 287G PROGRAM, BASICALLY LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT WORKING WITH I. C. E. OR IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT IN SOME CAPACITY, THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED TO USE THE APP.

THIS LEGISLATION WOULD AIM TO TACKLE THAT AS WELL.

SO IT WOULDN'T ELIMINATE IT OUTRIGHT, BUT IT WOULD TRY TO REIN IT IN SOMEWHAT.

>> IN ANOTHER STORY, YOU REPORTED THROUGH DOCUMENTS THAT YOU OBTAINED THROUGH A LAWSUIT OF FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST.

YOU FOUND THAT THERE WAS A DATA SHARING AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CENTERS FOR MEDICARE AND MEDICAID SERVICES AND THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY.

IN THAT AGREEMENT I. C. E. WAS GIVEN THE PERSONAL DATA OF NEARLY 80 MILLION MEDICAID PATIENTS.

WHAT DID YOU DISCOVER IN THE FULL TEXT OF THIS?

>> YEAH.

SO THAT AGREEMENT REALLY SHOWED THE BREADTH AND THE DEPTH OF THE DATA ON MEDICAID PATIENTS THAT WAS BEING SHARED WITH I. C. E. NAME, ADDRESS, OTHER SENSITIVE PERSONAL INFORMATION, AND I THINK IT JUST GOES TO SHOW THAT I. C. E. , AS AN AGENCY, IS TURNING TO VERY NOVEL WAYS TO GET INFORMATION THAT IT IS --THEY BELIEVE IS USEFUL TO ITS MISSION.

AS WELL AS THAT MEDICAID DATA, THERE WAS OF COURSE, THE DATA SHARING BETWEEN THE IRS AND I. C. E. NOW WHICH WAS UNPRECEDENTED.

OF COURSE, THE IDEA BEING THAT IRS WON'T SHARE DATA WITH I. C. E. SO UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE WILL BE ENCOURAGED TO STILL PAY THEIR TAXES.

THAT IS NOW OUT OF THE WINDOW.

YOU HAVE I. C. E. ACCESSING A MEDICAL INSURANCE CLAIM DATABASE CALLED ISO CLAIM SEARCH WHICH TO MY UNDERSTANDING IS NEARLY ALL-ENCOMPASSING OF SOMETHING OF MORE LIKE 90% OF ALL MEDICAL INSURANCE CLAIMS.

THAT ALSO INCLUDES PEOPLE'S ADDRESSES AND AGAIN, THE IDEA IS TO BRING ADDRESSES FROM ALL OF THESE VERY UNUSUAL DATA SOURCES SO I. C. E. CAN FIND WHO IT WISHES TO DEPORT AND DETAIN.

THAT IS VERY EXPLICIT IN THESE DATA SHARING AGREEMENTS.

>> SO, YOU KNOW, LOOK.

DIFFERENT BASES, DIFFERENT INFORMATION SITTING IN DISPARATE PLACES, THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT LED TO THE GREATEST TERROR ATTACK IN THE UNITED STATES, RIGHT?

AFTER 9/11, THIS WAS ONE OF THE KEY GOALS, IS, HEY.

IF YOU HAVE INFORMATION OVER HERE AND IT'S NOT CONNECTED AND TALKING TO THIS INFORMATION OVER HERE, WE COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS NEXT ATTACK, AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE COMBINING ALL OF THESE DATA SETS.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT THINKING OR AT LEAST HOW THESE TECHNOLOGIES ARE BEING USED TODAY?

>> I THINK THAT'S A TOTALLY FAIR POINT, AND I WOULD SAY THAT THE KEY IDEA IS CONTEXT AND CONSENT AS WELL OF COURSE.

I THINK WHEN SOMEBODY GOES TO PAY THEIR TAXES AND THEY PROVIDE AN ADDRESS TO THE IRS, THEY DON'T BELIEVE OR THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BELIEVED BEFORE, THAT THAT COULD END UP BEING USED FOR IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT.

I DON'T THINK MANY PEOPLE WOULD BELIEVE THAT WHEN THEY GO TO TRY TO SEEK MEDICAL HELP EITHER THROUGH MEDICAID OR SOME OTHER MECHANISM OF THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE ASSUMED THAT THAT DATA COULD THEN BE USED FOR IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT AS WELL, AND THIS DATA SHARING BETWEEN AGENCIES CAN BE BENEFICIAL FOR SOME THINGS.

OF COURSE, IT IS USEFUL IF MEMBERS OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY ARE TALKING TO ONE ANOTHER ABOUT CERTAIN, YOU KNOW, VERY HIGH- PROFILE, DANGEROUS TERRORIST THREATS FOR INSTANCE, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT AS PART OF A MASS DEPORTATION CAMPAIGN, WHICH IS UNFORTUNATELY ALSO TARGETING U. S. CITIZENS AND THEY'RE BEING CALLED OUT OF THEIR HOUSES AS WELL, AND PEOPLE OF COURSE, BEING HURT AND DRAGGED VERY INDISCRIMINATELY.

THE CONTEXT HERE IS VERY, VERY DIFFERENT TO, SAY, DATA SHARING IN THE WAR ON TERROR.

>> HOW MUCH OF THESE INSTANCES WHERE U. S. CITIZENS ARE HAVING THEIR DOORS KNOCKED ON SO TO SPEAK, HOW MUCH OF THAT IS A FAILURE OF THE TECHNOLOGY TOOLS VERSUS THE USERS THAT ARE ACTUALLY PUTTING IT TO USE, AND NOT READING THE INFORMATION CORRECTLY AND NOT LOOKING AT THE RIGHT CONFIDENCE SCORES?

OR IS THE TA JUST BAD?

>> THAT'S A VERY, VERY INTERESTING QUESTION, AND I THINK IT'S A COMBINATION OF BOTH OF THOSE AND ALSO JUST A GENERAL STRATEGY --ALMOST A LEGAL STRATEGY FROM I. C. E. AS WELL.

SO IN ONE CASE RECENTLY WHERE A U. S. CITIZEN WAS PULLED OUT OF HIS HOME, ACCORDING TO PUBLIC REPORTING THAT I WAS READING, I. C. E. BELIEVED SOMEBODY ELSE LIVED AT THAT ADDRESS AND THEY POTENTIALLY MOVED ON AT SOME POINT.

THAT WOULD BE A DATA ISSUE.

THE DATA WAS NOT CORRECT ABOUT WHO WAS AT THIS RESIDENCE.

THAT SAID, I. C. E. ALSO BELIEVES IT CAN NOW NTER PROPERTIES WITHOUT A SEARCH WARRANT.

IT BELIEVES DOES NOT VIOLATE THE FOURTH AMENDMENT ACCORDING TO A MEMO "THE ASSOCIATED PRESS" OBTAINED.

EVEN IF IT'S WRONG, THE AGENCY ALSO BELIEVES IT CAN ENTER PROPERTIES AS WELL AND I THINK IT'S VERY, VERY HARD TO DE-COUPLE THOSE.

I DON'T THINK IT'S ONE OR THE OTHER.

IT WOULD BE VERY EASY TO SIMPLY BLAME THE DATA, BUT THE REALITY IS THAT SOMEONE IS ON THE GROUND ACTING ON THAT INFORMATION AS WELL, AND THEY'RE MAKING A DECISION EITHER INDIVIDUALLY OR AS AN AGENCY TO DO WHATEVER IT IS THEY'RE GOING OUT AND DOING.

>> REPORTER AND CO-FOUNDER OF 404 MEDIA, JOSEPH COX.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR REPORTING.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.