Alaska Insight is supported in part by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and by viewers just like you.

Thank you.

Tsunamis have long been associated with earthquakes, but staff with the National Tsunami Warning Center are working to address broader concerns.

Well, what we're trying to do right now is really planned for generalizing this Udemy warning system so that we're more equipped to handle any v.. any landslide, and make sure we build that into our future systems.

What do you need to know about this critical warning system?

We'll talk with tsunami program experts right now on Alaska Insight.

Scientists are working to build more detection and connected monitoring systems to better understand seismic activity in all forms, whether that's an earthquake, landslide, or volcanic eruption.

All of these hazards could prompt a tsunami.

And as extreme weather intensifies, being prepared to respond quickly can help prevent lost lives.

We'll learn how that work is being conducted for the future and coordinated for the future.

But before we get to that discussion, here are some of the to.. from Alaska Public Media's coll.. statewide news network.

Alaska lawmakers have begun to review governor Mike Dunleavy executive order to establish a state Department of Agriculture.

The order seeks to split the existing division of Agriculture from the Department of Natural Resources, adding several new positions, including a cabinet level commissioner.

To start, it would handle essentially the same functions of the current division farm loans, land leases, marketing and scientific research.

During a legislative hearing on Wednesday, farmers and agriculture groups testified in support of the proposal, but lawmakers appeared split over the price tag during a time when the state is already grappling with tight finances.

The department will start work in July unless lawmakers pass a resolution opposing the order by mid-March.

Other discussions in the legislature are also being dampened by the state's poor financial outlook.

Oil revenue is expected to be flat or down next year due to stable prices and tax reductions owed to oil companies, as they drill more on the North Slope.

And so far this year, no legislators have proposed any revenue measures that could pay for a significant increase in spending.

Democratic Bethel Senator Lyman Hoffman, who has been a legislator since 1987, described the state's fiscal situation as the worst he'd seen in 30 years.

In a series of hearings this week, members of the legislature heard emotional testimony about the need for more education funding.

But as lawmakers consider the idea, it's becoming increasingly clear that more funding for public schools could come at the expense of the permanent fund dividend.

US Senator Lisa murkowski voted to confirm Tulsi Gabbard as director of national intelligence, and Robert Kennedy Jr as secretary of health and Human Services this week, after previously raising concerns over both candidates.

Senator murkowski was hesitant to confirm Kennedy over his stated anti vaccine views, but said during p.. that he had committed to a.. to vaccine recommendations.

On Gabbard, murkowski said she still had concerns about certain positions she had previously taken, but appreciated Gabbard's commitment to reduce the scope of her office.

You can find the full versi.. more stories on our website.

Alaska public.org, or download the Alaska Public Media app on your phone now on to our discussion for this evening.

Alaskans know that in the state with the most ocean coastline in the nation, the risk of tsunami is always present.

The recent 20 year anniversary of the deadly tsunami in the Indian Ocean that killed more than 200,000 people is a sobering reminder of how devastating these powerful waves can be, and how quickly they can take lives and destroy coastal infrastructure.

And some of the people who monitor seismic activity worldwide are right here in Alaska.

The modest exterior of the National Tsunami Warning Center gives little hint to the critically important international work that goes on inside 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Scientists here monitor the world's oceans for seismic activity that could trigger a tsunami watch or warning.

Decisions made in minutes can mean the difference between lives saved or l..

But if this were a larger event, you could see where 7.5 hours in acting scientist and Operations Officer Cara Sterling says when an alarm goes off.

The earthquake is located in the Kermadec Islands, New Zealand.

The scientists start reviewing seismic data to look for activity that indicates an earthquake.

And then we're doing some analysis over in this screen.

She gives the example of a 6.3 ea.. that happened in the Aleutians earl..

When we start analyzing the data, seeing if you know it's a real event, where is it located?

How large is it?

And a lot of that is really the criteria that we need to take.

That next step is do we need to issue something.

Is this an event of co.. for our area of responsibility?

The Tsunami Warning Center monitors and is responsible for issuing warnings for the continental United States, Alaska and Canada.

And they employ an international system in order to do that.

Warning center physical scientist Michael Burgi says because they monitor earthquakes worldwide, they take different action depending on the location.

For example, south of Alaska, people may want information on a magnitude four earthquake.

But in the Aleutian Isl.. Tsunamis can travel across an entire ocean, so warning center staff need to monitor events around the world.

We have to diligently respond to these events, whether they're small or medium, or we haven't seen anything for weeks.

We will still need to approach all of these ones as if it's something that somebody in the life may depend on.

So it's something that we respond to with seriousness and, well, with speed.

Large earthquakes .. in the past, but acting director of the center Summer Olan Dorf says new satellite technology, in addition to tide gauges, helps scientists see more of the tsunami wave field and other possible tsunami generators.

What we're trying to do right now is really plan for generalizing this you Nami warning system, so that we're more equipped to handle any v.. any landslide, and make sure we build that into our future systems and we're able to detect an.. those hazards quickly, she says.

The center coordinates and shares information with other science and government partners like the U.S. Geological Survey, USGS, to monitor landslide risk and volcanoes that are capable of producing tsunamis, and ensuring they have the instruments in place to monitor terrain.

There's kind of, a dance that we need to do between being aware of what's possible and then being aware of things as they're happening, because we can't possibly account fo.. potential hazards in situations increasing temperatures and precipitation in Alaska has elevated landslide risk, with the potential to trigger a tsunami.

Southeast communities have experienced four deadly landslides since 2015, and Burgess says the Barry Arm area in Prince William Sound is being closely watched because of the threat of a large slide triggering a tsunami that could hit Whittier.

We have a very quick response time to to beat what could be a very surprising wave arriving onshore.

It'd be a probably an impressive seismic signal that would show up on several stations, although the threat of a tsunami is always present.

Context about the risk and calm preparation is key.

Berg stresses the importance of paying attention to the notices.

It's really important that people don't wonder, well, what should we do with this tsunami warning?

Because they need to take our word for it.

They need to drop .. and they need to go now.

Go now.

The key takeaway from the center's communication strategy.

If you hear a tsunami siren or get an alert minutes count, get to high ground.

Be safe.

In Palmer.

I'm Lori Townsend.

And here I am in Anchorage.

Joining me tonight to discuss the important work taking place in Palmer at the National Tsunami Warning Center and across the world is Cindy Preller.

Cindy is the executive director of the Pacific Tsunami Museum in Hilo, Hawaii.

But she spent more than a decade in Alaska working for the Nati..

Warning Center as a duty scientist and as the tsunami program manager for the NOAA Facility.

Welcome, Cindy.

Thanks so much.

Hi.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome.

Yeah, it's great to s.. After many years, we, certainly worked together in the past on stories.

When you were still in Alaska.

And I should let our audience know that, we had we had invited Dave Snyder, who is the program the coordinator for the tsunami center in Palmer.

But as things often happened, he had to help out with staffing today at the center so he could not join us, where we regret that he could not.

But we're so happy that you can be here, Ci..

So the story that we just saw touched on the expansion of the detection system, but fleshed that out for us.

Scientists have said that they're generalizing the tsunami center.

How how has that come into play?

The satellite systems and different types of tide gauges, other technology.

What's going on there that can help monitor more than just fault lines for earthquakes?

Well, it's very exciting.

We call it emerging technologies.

And, of course, always we've been worried about landslides and volcanic eruptions and anything that can move the entire wat..

But through cooperation with, our partners, universities and, like the USGS and others, we are able to actually be testing some of these new, new technologies.

For example, Barry Arm is a great example of a collaboration with the USGS and, you know, the ability to Warren for an e..

The tsunami warning centers hope to get a warning out within five minutes.

A landslide could be much faster than that.

And so if we're able to detect it quicker and get a warning out immediately, then that's just going to save lives.

So it's it's exciting.

And those detection methods are they actually centers on the landscape where they're sensing if there's shifting and moving.

Yeah.

that is being tested.

Our volcanic partners at the, volcano observatories use a lot of incredible instrumentation where they can, you know, measure inflation and tilt and, and those kinds of things.

This is a smaller scale set of instrumentation than the tsunami warning centers have used in the past.

And so, you know, if we ca.. alerting that there's movement on the mount.. then the faster the better.

Cindi, as we were getting ready to record this evening's program, I had an alert.

I have a earthquake app on my phone and anything over about a three.

It sends me an alert.

Now this was an alert for a 6.0 significant earthquake.

It was near.

I hope I'm pronouncing this corre.. Mita hara Ethiopia.

Outside of the of the tsunami warning centers.

Area of monitoring for Palmer.

But talk about what happens when something when an earthquake of that significance happens.

How does how does, how does everyone become aware of this?

And what's the what's the workflow there?

Oh, sure.

Happy to help on t..

So the United States has two su nami warning centers, one in Palmer, the National Tsunami Warning Center, and then one in Honolulu, which is the Pacific and, Warning Center.

Both warning centers monitor the entire globe 24/7.

So even if we don't have American lives immediately at risk, we still know of every single large earthquake that happens on the planet.

So this magnitude six in Ethiopia would, trigger, our alert systems.

Sometimes it's a beeper.

There's some kind of an alarming.

The warning duty scientists are right there handy.

And they will evaluate the earthquake immediately.

And just like Kara said in the video, you know, where is it?

How big is it?

And what is the threat?

So we will b.. like a real event until we're absolutely sure that there are no lives in danger.

You are the president of the Pacific Tsunami Museum in Hilo.

You're sitting in front of a display about the great Alaska earthquake of 1964.

Talk about, how how your work differs.

Now, I am assuming that there aren't monitoring stations and alerts going off at the museum.

So how do you still stay in the the day to day mix and and help the public understand these things?

Oh, thanks for that.

You know, this exhibit was created by the Pacific Tsunami Museum in preparation for the 50 year commemoration of the 1964 tsunami in Alaska.

I was at the National Tsunami Warning Center at the time.

And so that's when I met these lovely folks.

And what we did was we gathered oral history interviews from Alaskan tsunami survivors, and it was incredibly impactful.

And we learned so much information about what it's actually like to be in a tsunami, but also how social science that teaches us, it really helps us figure out how to warn, but also how to advise people on what to expect.

So thanks for letting me throw that little caveat in there.

What's great about .. is that I can still serve the mission that I am, incredibly passionate about it, as are all the duty scientists that work on Nami.

And so I'm able to continue the education effort.

And, my museum is connected internationally, so I'm still working with all of my partners that I knew and NOAA, and they keep me updated as events unfold.

I do not have a beeper here, which is fine with me.

And, I get to sleep nights, so that's welcome.

Yes, I'm sure after all the years you spent on high alert, we're are the current areas of most concern for the United States.

Realizing that something unexpected like a landslide can happen.

But for known faults, volcanoes, other hazards.

What, maybe still keeps you up at night a bit, wondering, .. more monitoring equipment.

I love this question, so I'd like to preface it with, our colleagues in Japan.

They have a cable system which the tsunami.

The U.S. Army warning system is also testin..

The coast of Washington and British Columbia, where they have, instrumentation on the seafloor that can help them analyze, risks quickly.

So Alaska is always a high alert possibility for a large tsunami.

The Aleutians zone is active and earthquakes and tsunamis that originate there can certainly travel across the entire ocean basin.

So we are always concerned about Alaska and, and, and, you know, down in Southeast Alaska, the landslide risk is absolutely a legitimate worry because it does not require an earthquake.

You know, it can just be.. that can make those slopes fail.

So in addition to that, Cascadia is, extends from north and southern Canada all the way down to northern Califo.. And its last large tsunami was in 1700.

And so that is of large concern to us as well.

Is redundancy part of the reason why there's a warning system, a sort of sort of a sister facility in Hawaii to the Palmer facility is is the idea that if one would get damaged because of, an earthquake or tsunami, that the other one coul.. that systems stay up and monitoring?

You know, redu.. to all emergency services, you know, and, I mean, not just our agencies, but, all of our services.

And we all confer with each other to collaborate and, and analyze.

So, you know, he was founded because of the 1946 earthquake, which originated near Scotch Cap in Alaska.

And, like Paul Whitmore, the retired director of the National Snow Warning Center there in Palmer, he said tsunamis create tsunami warning centers.

That's true for other hazards as well.

So.

1964 is the reason that Alaska has its own tsunami warning center at that point, at a time in the 60s, we did not have the instrumentation around the world in order to analyze as quickly as we do now.

And so both warning centers working together.

Yes, they are backup centers to each other.

They are redundant to each other, but they actually serve very different areas.

So the National Tsunami Warning Center in Palmer is responsible for the entire North American continent, except Mexico and the Pacific.

Tsunami Warning Center also has an international responsibility with international threat messages to our neighbors.

Why does it not extend to Mexico?

Who monitors Mexico's coastline?

Because it's international.

That falls under these responsibilities.

Okay.

Thank you.

Cindy, if I have the numbers right.

I believe Mr. Snyder told us in an earlier interview that 85% of the time, earthquakes are the main tsunami generators.

Is that 15% that's being triggered by other things like landslides?

Is that percentage starting to grow now?

Oh, I don't think so.

The problem is, is the landslides.

Tsunami is a local tsunami.

And the the arrival of the tsunami wave train happens very, very quickly.

And it really and so quickly that it's difficult for the warning center to issue a warning for that.

For exam.. there were seven submarine landslides.

The resurrection Bay.

And so the tsunami that was arriving in Seward was 90s.

Yeah, that's a big difference.

That's, very important distinction.

Cindy, in an earlier interview, you said it's more important now than ever that we stay vigilant about tsunami education and awareness.

But talk a little bit about that.

Why is it more important now than ever?

Absolutely.

That's a caveat to just think about Seward.

So if you have a tsunami that large arriving in that short of a time span, the only way to mitigate that is education.

And it's a critical, critical factor for folks that live in high risk regions to know the warning signs and to not rely specifically on the official warning system, which is of course, fabulous.

But if you can recognize the warning signs that nature gives us, that's the important work that the centers do, but also the states do, the emergency managers do that.

We have to get people educated, especially the kids.

And so if I if I can stretch to a scenario here, working with the Department of Health, discussing trauma, I asked how long it takes if somebody is in shock for any traumatic event.

I mean, even something like a car crash, right?

And the shock can actually last for two minutes.

We don't have two minutes.

And so we need to practice.

We need to absolutely understand the warning signs.

We need it to become muscle memory.

And in that way we won't go into shock.

We will know exactly what to do.

And you know, listening to the oral history of tsunami survivors makes it personal.

They're your neighbors.

Maybe they're your grandparents, you know.

So doing.. frequently is really the way for muscle memory to engage when you are actually in the event you're outside .. Now, you work for a museum in Hawaii.

What is your concern?

Because when you're talking about educating people, of course, that means lawmakers and people with purse strings.

When tsunamis, when we're fortunate, they don't happen very often, which is wonderful.

We don't want them.

But how do you keep people from becoming apathetic about, you know, do we really need to be spending this money here?

And what is your concern about, the current setting for the National Weather Service, for NOAA and for funding into the future?

Oh, it's, it's a really, really difficult time right now.

Critical public safety positions, you know, could possibly be terminated.

And if we think about just a government shutdown, what happens during a government shutdown, which I experienced a few of.

And so, you know, a lot of services are halted during a shutdown.

And education is one of the first to go always.

And so for the tsunami warning system, the duty of scientists, because they are essential to the mission and the safety of the country, they still are on duty.

But all the other services, are, are absolutely at a standstill.

And this administration, the last time, proposed a vertical slash to the entire tsunami warning system.

And that is not just education that is both warning centers.

That's research, that's emerging technologies.

So, you know, and it's not just Nami.

It applies throughout the country, but from my perspective now as a nonprofit, you know, my grants are at risk as well.

So, you know, we all really need to band together and, and help each other in these tricky, difficult, unpredictable times.

You talked a little bit about the importance of kind of practicing that plan in your mind, so that when you're in that moment of terror and shock, you can still act.

What do you hear from the public?

Do they respect and listen to the warnings?

I'm sure that it's a little different for citizens of H.. than maybe visitors from other places that aren't that come to Hawaii and and maybe come to your museum and don't have that experience.

Do they understand the importance of this and pay attention to those warnings?

I think they do.

I really think they do.

We of course we do get people from all over the world.

And we also get, quite a few survivors that visit.

And, they are especially grateful that we're here doing the work.

They consider it vital and very important.

We are the only tsunami museum in the country.

And so I feel like my mission extends to all coastlines.

And, that's why I'm so grateful to be here today.

Because I really care so much.

But Alaska also gets a tremendous amount of tourism from all over the world.

And so you'll have people, you know, visiting Valdez or, you know, Cordova or, and they will not know what to do either.

Yes, I, I personally, if I were to visit my friends in Oklahoma, I wouldn't know what to do during..

Thank you.

We'll have to..

But I so appreciate your time.

So good to see you again, Cindy.

Thank you so much for being with us this eveni.. You're so welcome.

Thank you for the invita.. Alaska has a lot of coastline, and as we heard this evening, tsunamis can be generated by more than just a large earthquake.

If you live on or near the coast or spend time near it, be sure you're signed up for alerts for your region.

Don't let apathy be the enemy of your preparedness.

Minutes.

Count.

Know how to get alerts, how to connect with local authorities for instructions, and the routes to safety if a wave is imminent.

That's it for this edition of Alaska Insight, visit our website Alaska public.org for breaking news and reports from our partner stations across the state.

While you're there, sign up for our free.. so you won't miss any of Alaska's top stories of the day.

Thanks for joining us this evening.

I'm Lori Townsend.

Good night.